The Book of Tobit
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The Book of Tobit
So, it's Lent, which means it's the time of year I crack open my old New American Bible and set aside other books for the most part.
This year, I started with Nehemiah (Ooo! I built a wall! The people, they moved back into Jerusalem! They strayed AGAIN! I set them straight!), and have carried on to the next book in the Catholic Bible, the
Book of Tobit.
It totally rocks.
Anyone else here familiar with it? It's a teaching story about a righteous undertaker, featuring the angel Raphael, the demon Asmodeus, two prayers for death and a song of thanksgiving.
There's a lot of deep textual stuff going on, I'm pretty sure, and I'm wondering if anyone else has plumbed the depths before I give it a shot.
This year, I started with Nehemiah (Ooo! I built a wall! The people, they moved back into Jerusalem! They strayed AGAIN! I set them straight!), and have carried on to the next book in the Catholic Bible, the
Book of Tobit.
It totally rocks.
Anyone else here familiar with it? It's a teaching story about a righteous undertaker, featuring the angel Raphael, the demon Asmodeus, two prayers for death and a song of thanksgiving.
There's a lot of deep textual stuff going on, I'm pretty sure, and I'm wondering if anyone else has plumbed the depths before I give it a shot.
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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I've read a little bit of it before, but as I recall, I didn't get too far before getting distracted by Maccabees and then getting distracted again and again by one thing after another. Never came back to finish it, so I can't say that I've really plumbed the depths of it. I'd be game for doing a little reading/research though (as long as it doesn't take too long) if you come across anything in particular you'd like to discuss.
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this:
to care for orphans and widows in their distress,
and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
--James 1:27
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UMSonOfMan7 - Refining Scorch of Amos
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Well, there's this weird relationship with death throughout the book -- it's a sort of theme.
And there's also a sense that Tobit is a parallel with Job, but the lessons are substantially different.
The basic story is outlined in about 10 paragraphs at that link in my first post:
Tobit, a righteous man stuck out with the sinners in Nineveh, is afflicted with blindness and prays to God to allow him to die.
At the same time, Sarah, a young woman stuck out in Media, also prays for death. In her case, she had seven husbands die on her before she could consummate the marriage -- the demon Asmodeus is killing the men.
God sends Raphael to clear things up, which he does by pretending to be a kinsman of Tobit's looking for work.
Raphael winds up escorting Tobiah, Tobit's son, to recover some money he had left with a relative in Media.
Now, one of the freaky parts is that it turns out that Tobiah and Sarah are supposed to get married according to the Law of Moses, because they're related to each other. This is an idea that gets repeated four or five times throughout the book -- she's the right sort of kinswoman, so Tobiah's supposed to have first dibs. Which is a little odd.
Another kinsman of Tobit's is also a "hero of Near Eastern folklore" according to the introduction.
Another oddness is that Raphael, traveling to Media with Tobiah, gives him the recipe for an exorcism. They catch a big fish, see, and Raphael has Tobiah gut it and save the gall, heart and liver. The gall will cure his father's blindness, the heart and liver can be burned to drive the demon out of Sarah's bedchamber.
Anyway, it all works out -- Tobiah marries his cousin Sarah, drives out Asmodeus (who gets bound hand and foot by Raphael), Sarah's father insists that he stay for fourteen days of feasting, his parents think he's dead, but then he returns with new wife and old money, and cures his father of the cataracts. With what must be some pretty rancid fish guts by then.
Then, Raphael reveals himself, Tobit praises God, and warns his kid to get out of Nineveh because (as in Jonah's story) God's gonna smite the place after he (Tobit) dies.
Tobit dies, Tobiah and wife and (nagging, fretful) mother head out to Media and shack up with Sarah's overjoyed parents.
And everyone's happy (except the Ninevites).
The introduction to the book also points out this bit here, explaining why it was deuterocanon (only Greek texts known) although its inclusion in Catholic canon was merited and proven (Aramaic text found in Dead Sea Scrolls):
That's a really brief summary -- in the book, there's a real sense not only of narrative (good plot) but also of character. Tobit's wife is a real nag, Sarah's father is caring & protective, and Raphael's a bit of a joker (at least, the way I read him).
And there's also a sense that Tobit is a parallel with Job, but the lessons are substantially different.
The basic story is outlined in about 10 paragraphs at that link in my first post:
Tobit, a righteous man stuck out with the sinners in Nineveh, is afflicted with blindness and prays to God to allow him to die.
At the same time, Sarah, a young woman stuck out in Media, also prays for death. In her case, she had seven husbands die on her before she could consummate the marriage -- the demon Asmodeus is killing the men.
God sends Raphael to clear things up, which he does by pretending to be a kinsman of Tobit's looking for work.
Raphael winds up escorting Tobiah, Tobit's son, to recover some money he had left with a relative in Media.
Now, one of the freaky parts is that it turns out that Tobiah and Sarah are supposed to get married according to the Law of Moses, because they're related to each other. This is an idea that gets repeated four or five times throughout the book -- she's the right sort of kinswoman, so Tobiah's supposed to have first dibs. Which is a little odd.
Another kinsman of Tobit's is also a "hero of Near Eastern folklore" according to the introduction.
Another oddness is that Raphael, traveling to Media with Tobiah, gives him the recipe for an exorcism. They catch a big fish, see, and Raphael has Tobiah gut it and save the gall, heart and liver. The gall will cure his father's blindness, the heart and liver can be burned to drive the demon out of Sarah's bedchamber.
Anyway, it all works out -- Tobiah marries his cousin Sarah, drives out Asmodeus (who gets bound hand and foot by Raphael), Sarah's father insists that he stay for fourteen days of feasting, his parents think he's dead, but then he returns with new wife and old money, and cures his father of the cataracts. With what must be some pretty rancid fish guts by then.
Then, Raphael reveals himself, Tobit praises God, and warns his kid to get out of Nineveh because (as in Jonah's story) God's gonna smite the place after he (Tobit) dies.
Tobit dies, Tobiah and wife and (nagging, fretful) mother head out to Media and shack up with Sarah's overjoyed parents.
And everyone's happy (except the Ninevites).
The introduction to the book also points out this bit here, explaining why it was deuterocanon (only Greek texts known) although its inclusion in Catholic canon was merited and proven (Aramaic text found in Dead Sea Scrolls):
Written in Aramaic, the original of the book was lost for centuries. The Greek translation, existing in three different recensions, is our primary source. In 1955, fragments of the book in Aramaic and in Hebrew were recovered from Cave IV at Qumran. These texts are in substantial agreement with the Greek recension that has served as the basis for the present translation.
That's a really brief summary -- in the book, there's a real sense not only of narrative (good plot) but also of character. Tobit's wife is a real nag, Sarah's father is caring & protective, and Raphael's a bit of a joker (at least, the way I read him).
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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grant wrote:There's also some jazz with a dog who follows Tobiah that has to have some meaning -- I'm reminded of The Fool card in the Tarot -- but I'm not clear what it is.
If you want to know the fool card I can give that, but do you mean what the meaning is to the text?
That sounds very interestings. I've only skimmed the text of Tobit, never really read it.
We cannot receive answers to questions we never ask.
---Paul Tillich
All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.
---Alexander Dumas
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
---Brenda Gill
---Paul Tillich
All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.
---Alexander Dumas
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
---Brenda Gill

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ekittkatt - Kitty on a Hot Tin Roof
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Well, there's this dog that pops up and follows Tobiah around whenever he's near home. I'm sure there's some esoteric significance to that, because the dog doesn't play into the story in any obvious way at all.
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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Yeah I can't imagin sybolism being put in for no reason . . . do you think it's something that has been lost over time or translations?grant wrote:Well, there's this dog that pops up and follows Tobiah around whenever he's near home. I'm sure there's some esoteric significance to that, because the dog doesn't play into the story in any obvious way at all.
We cannot receive answers to questions we never ask.
---Paul Tillich
All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.
---Alexander Dumas
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
---Brenda Gill
---Paul Tillich
All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.
---Alexander Dumas
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
---Brenda Gill

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ekittkatt - Kitty on a Hot Tin Roof
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Is this any use?
Influences upon work
The author of Tobit seems to have been influenced by contemporary folklore. Scholars have suggested that the major influences came from two separate folktales, “The Grateful Dead”, and “The Bride of the Monster”, although there is dispute as to which is primary. Scholars agree that “The Ahiqar Tale” also played a prominent role in the development and composition of Tobit. Some scholars also see elements from “The Tractate of Khons” and “The Two Brothers” in Tobit.
Although the author of Tobit wove his various folktales together quite skillfully, their seams are occasionally detectable in certain loose or incompatible threads. For example, his gratuitous mention of Tobiah’s dog (Tob 6:1; 11:4), an animal held in low esteem in the Bible, strikes many readers as a remnant from some other tale (like the Dragon Slayer in Admetus, Odysseus, or the dog in Zoroastrianism, Srasha).
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E. Randy Dupre - Mount Doom
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Wait -- so they're saying the dog might have wandered over from the Odyssey? That's messed up, man!
That's a cool page, though. Interesting in that it says Jerome used an Aramaic original text -- and the other stuff about why it's canon some places but not all (oh, those darn rabbis and their Patristic Fathers!).
I think this bit is why I find the book so interesting:
The theme I mentioned earlier -- the repeated death imagery -- seems very novelistic and not like a history at all.
Partial list of death images
* Tobit's righteousness is illustrated by his willingness to take great risks in order to bury the dead properly.
* Tobit and Sarah's prayers to God are both prayers for death.
* On Tobiah's wedding night, his father-in-law has the servants dig a grave, then fill it in (once he realizes Tobiah is actually gonna make it).
* Tobit has a death scene, in which he issues prophesies about the fate of Nineveh and Jerusalem.
* Tobit 11:9, the histrionic Anna greets her (overdue) son Tobiah with the words, "Now that I have seen you again, son, I am ready to die!"
* Tobit 4 is what the editors/translators here call "Wisdom Literature," in which Tobit gives his son all sorts of advice for living a virtuous life before he sets off on his quest. The speech contains one of the few references to the afterlife in the Old Testament ("Almsgiving frees one from death, and keeps one from going into the dark abode.") and points out a special virtue to being kind to mourners ("Be lavish with your bread and wine at the burial of the virtuous, but do not share them with sinners.")
That last is footnoted: "Tobit counsels his son either to give alms in honor of the dead, or, more probably, to give the "bread of consolation" to the family of the deceased. Cf [bible]Jeremiah 16:7[/bible];[bible] Ezekiel 24:17[/bible]."
I'm curious what people might make of these, or others, if they notice any other death allusions -- how are these things connected to each other? Why is death all over Tobit?
That's a cool page, though. Interesting in that it says Jerome used an Aramaic original text -- and the other stuff about why it's canon some places but not all (oh, those darn rabbis and their Patristic Fathers!).
I think this bit is why I find the book so interesting:
In the Vulgate, Tobit is grouped together with Judith and Esther, which follow the historical books. As a collection, they constitute a distinctive literary group. Modern biblical scholarship views them as works of religious fiction. They tell faith stories of Jewish heroes, and the narratives do not seem concerned with historical or geographical accuracy. Further classification of genre is difficult, and has been a matter of scholarly debate. However, describing Tobit as a pious, romantic novella is not unreasonable.
The theme I mentioned earlier -- the repeated death imagery -- seems very novelistic and not like a history at all.
Partial list of death images
* Tobit's righteousness is illustrated by his willingness to take great risks in order to bury the dead properly.
* Tobit and Sarah's prayers to God are both prayers for death.
* On Tobiah's wedding night, his father-in-law has the servants dig a grave, then fill it in (once he realizes Tobiah is actually gonna make it).
* Tobit has a death scene, in which he issues prophesies about the fate of Nineveh and Jerusalem.
* Tobit 11:9, the histrionic Anna greets her (overdue) son Tobiah with the words, "Now that I have seen you again, son, I am ready to die!"
* Tobit 4 is what the editors/translators here call "Wisdom Literature," in which Tobit gives his son all sorts of advice for living a virtuous life before he sets off on his quest. The speech contains one of the few references to the afterlife in the Old Testament ("Almsgiving frees one from death, and keeps one from going into the dark abode.") and points out a special virtue to being kind to mourners ("Be lavish with your bread and wine at the burial of the virtuous, but do not share them with sinners.")
That last is footnoted: "Tobit counsels his son either to give alms in honor of the dead, or, more probably, to give the "bread of consolation" to the family of the deceased. Cf [bible]Jeremiah 16:7[/bible];[bible] Ezekiel 24:17[/bible]."
I'm curious what people might make of these, or others, if they notice any other death allusions -- how are these things connected to each other? Why is death all over Tobit?
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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First things first: you're already aware that I'm more or less interfering in a thread about something that I have *very* little knowledge of.
Now that's out of the way, I think I might have found your dog.
From here, we have this:
So we take Persia onboard, go here and get this:
And, wanting to know the link between dogs and Persia, we go here to discover that:
How's that? The dog accompanies Tobiah as protection. We only ever see it twice, but then that's because we only need to see it twice - once when Tobiah sets out on his journey and once on his safe return. The dog's done its job just by being there.
Also, this site has it that the dog is also a herald of Tobiah's return:
although in the version you linked to first (and this last link of mine doesn't give any source for its quote that I can see) , the dog follows behind. That makes more sense to me - I mean, how much protecting can you do if you're between your charge and his safe place? You'd need to hang back to make sure nobody jumped him at the last minute.
Oh yeah, and check out the coincidental reappearance of your death motif in the third quote...
Now that's out of the way, I think I might have found your dog.
From here, we have this:
In later Judaism we find the conception of Satan strongly colored
by Persian dualism, and it has been supposed that Asmodeus of the
Book of Tobit is the same as Aeshara Daewa of the Ancient Persians.
So we take Persia onboard, go here and get this:
The fact that a dog is made to accompany Tobias on his journey to Ecbatana (Tobit 5:17; 11:4) favors a Persian origin, but is so repugnant to Semitic ideas that it is omitted from the Hebrew versions of this story.
And, wanting to know the link between dogs and Persia, we go here to discover that:
Dogs are regarded as the holiest of animals, almost equal to people. This is a natural attitude among people whose livelihood depends on herds of cattle and sheep, where herding dogs are essential helpers. Dogs also have spiritual powers, as described in Fargard 8. The presence and gaze of a dog is said to drive away evil spirits, and a dog is brought to a corpse and to the places the corpse has been, to puritfy them. The dog is a protector in both the physical and the spiritual world.
How's that? The dog accompanies Tobiah as protection. We only ever see it twice, but then that's because we only need to see it twice - once when Tobiah sets out on his journey and once on his safe return. The dog's done its job just by being there.
Also, this site has it that the dog is also a herald of Tobiah's return:
When they returned to Nineveh, the dog ran ahead, bringing the news of their return and "showed his joy by fawning and wagging his tail."
although in the version you linked to first (and this last link of mine doesn't give any source for its quote that I can see) , the dog follows behind. That makes more sense to me - I mean, how much protecting can you do if you're between your charge and his safe place? You'd need to hang back to make sure nobody jumped him at the last minute.
Oh yeah, and check out the coincidental reappearance of your death motif in the third quote...
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E. Randy Dupre - Mount Doom
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I'm not entirely convinced it *is* coincidental... I wonder if dogs and death have an association for the Hebrew storytellers. There's certainly a suggestion in the beginning that Tobit's undertaking business is righteous but... unsavory, maybe. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty and deal with stinky ol' bodies, even in the middle of dinner. That seems like the dog would be appropriate, whether Persian or Hebrew.
I love these research sites you're pulling up, too.
The first one, bibletools.com, mentions the significance of Tobit to weddings, which was a vibe I'd picked up on before -- the central action is a wedding feast, after all.
I love these research sites you're pulling up, too.
The first one, bibletools.com, mentions the significance of Tobit to weddings, which was a vibe I'd picked up on before -- the central action is a wedding feast, after all.
bibletools.com wrote:Though this book is excluded from Protestant Bibles (with but few exceptions), Tobit 4:7-9 is read in the Anglican offertory, and at one time Tobias and Sarah occupied in the marriage service of the Anglican rubrics the position at present held by Abraham and Sarah.
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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I had smply assumed that the Dog in Tobit was a piece of "wandering" Zoroastrianism that had got inserted into the story.
It is very strange because the Jews loathed dogs as unclean (they eat dead things, ick!) whereas for the Zoroastrians the dog was proof positive of Mazda Ahura's goodness because He had given them friend AND protector in one nifty package.
As a 'Doggy' person, I find in Zoroastrianism many resonances!
Kiwimac
It is very strange because the Jews loathed dogs as unclean (they eat dead things, ick!) whereas for the Zoroastrians the dog was proof positive of Mazda Ahura's goodness because He had given them friend AND protector in one nifty package.
As a 'Doggy' person, I find in Zoroastrianism many resonances!
Kiwimac
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx
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I was just looking up Tobit in my "Who's Who in the Bible" and learned nothing new, really -- except they had an illustration of a medieval German tapestry showing three scenes from the Book of Tobit (Tobit and family preparing a burial, Tobiah catching the fish, Tobiah and Sarah returning home I think). In each scene, the little dog is prancing around in a corner somewhere.
Looking at the entries, though, I did realize that Tobiah is a good guy in the Book of Tobit -- but someone with the same name is a bad guy (a jealous and tricky Ammonite leader) in the Book of Nehemiah, which comes right before Tobit. Apparently in some translations, the names are spelled differently -- one of 'em's Tobiyah. In other translations, Tobit and his son are (confusingly) given the same name.
Isn't there an old British tradition of a "Toby dog"?
Looking at the entries, though, I did realize that Tobiah is a good guy in the Book of Tobit -- but someone with the same name is a bad guy (a jealous and tricky Ammonite leader) in the Book of Nehemiah, which comes right before Tobit. Apparently in some translations, the names are spelled differently -- one of 'em's Tobiyah. In other translations, Tobit and his son are (confusingly) given the same name.
Isn't there an old British tradition of a "Toby dog"?
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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Over weekend, went to library and picked up the Oxford Bible Commentaries, a seriously fat book about, well, everything in the Bible.
I haven't gotten all the way through the entry on Tobit, but was tickled by some stuff in the intro to Tobit:
What tickles me: the editors of the Oxford Bible Commentaries use the phrase "dashed off" another time to talk about Jerome's translation of the book -- they almost seem eager to "explain" why this text isn't as good as the stuff in the Protestant canon.
They do mention that it's canon in the Eastern Orthodox -- and, of course, that texts of Tobit have been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, even if it wasn't part of the Hebrew Scriptures at the time Jerome did his thing.
I haven't gotten all the way through the entry on Tobit, but was tickled by some stuff in the intro to Tobit:
(G11 is the Greek Long Recension used in the NRSV and preserved in the Codex Sinaiticus).The relation of this form of the book, long used in the Roman Catholic tradition, to a Greek version is problematic; at times it differs considerably from the VL and Greek recensions. Jerome admitted that he dashed off the translation of it in one day (unius diei laborem arripui), having found a Jewish interpreter who could read Aramaic and translate it for him into Hebrew, which he then rendered in Latin(Ep. ad Chromatium et Heliodorum; PL 29.23-6). As a result it differs notably from the Qumran Aramaic form known today and from G11.
What tickles me: the editors of the Oxford Bible Commentaries use the phrase "dashed off" another time to talk about Jerome's translation of the book -- they almost seem eager to "explain" why this text isn't as good as the stuff in the Protestant canon.
Jerome did not regard it as canonical and dashed off his Latin version of it only at the insistence of two bishops (who apparently did consider it canonical).
They do mention that it's canon in the Eastern Orthodox -- and, of course, that texts of Tobit have been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, even if it wasn't part of the Hebrew Scriptures at the time Jerome did his thing.
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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Looking up Orpah and Goliath based on the "Spies!" thread in this forum, I found this interesting bit of symbolism about dogs:
So chutzpa, then. Even a dangerous level of pride.
Which kind of makes sense, given the outspoken character of Tobit's wife and the way she's linked to the dog in the story.
Orpah wanted the feeling of closeness; Ruth wanted a deeper closeness. Orpah ultimately left Naomi in order to remain in Moab. The Midrash tells us that she spent that very night with many men and a dog. In rabbinic literature, the dog is used as a symbol of chutzpa. We are told that in the era prior to the Messianic age, the face of the generation will be as full of chutzpa the face of the dog. In order to best understand this image, visualize a man walking down the street with a pet sheep. In this case, the man would be in front; the sheep in back. A man walking down the street with his pet dog, by contrast, follows the dog. The dog perceives itself to be a leader even though it is not a leader.
A dog is a symbol of a being that is empty.
So chutzpa, then. Even a dangerous level of pride.
Which kind of makes sense, given the outspoken character of Tobit's wife and the way she's linked to the dog in the story.
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grant - BURNING BUSH OF MOSES!!!
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